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I 8767 m not totally disagreeing with PopChassid. I think he makes some good points about what love really is. I 8767 m not in a community that does dating/marriage/matchmaking quite like that, but that 8767 s OK, we all have our cultures and our ways of doing things and that 8767 s fine. My husband and I were best friends for 8 years but had always liked each other, dated for two, were engaged for one, and have been married for three. We married 8775 for love 8776 and were 8775 in love 8776 when we married, but our version of love is more like what he describes as happening later in his marriage. We just happened to have it before marriage, too (we did live together before marriage I know that 8767 ll sound horrifying to a lot of people here, but it 8767 s not horrifying to me at all. I actually do think it helped us form the kind of bond that has created a stable and successful marriage).

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This is why as a Muslim, I love Orthodox Jews. We pretty much do everything the same way, including marriage with the exception that the date is chaperoned and usually at the prospective wife 8767 s place, with her parents visibly in the distance. I agree about making it an intellectual decision that 8767 s how I got married (at an age of 78) and I have not regretted it for one second ever since.

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If you really are going to spend the rest of your life with your boyfriend/girlfriend then what is the rush in getting married? It doesn 8767 t matter if you wait 5 minutes or 5 years, you made up your mind that you will be with them forever, so why not wait until you can actually afford to support yourselves?? of course your parents can help you out, but you need to be able to pay the bills every month plus groceries and gas that 8767 s a huge commitment to add that much responsibility to your life for someone you met only a few months ago it just sounds a little crazy to me

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I also want to clarify after reading your latest comments: I don 8767 t in the slightest want to knock everything about western ideals of love. I 8767 m talking more about the myths that have become so prevalent in our culture. Not so much about the idea of whether or not we should be infatuated before marriage, but that that love is ALL there is to it. I think that 8767 s a disastrous way of looking at things, and it 8767 s not even western. It 8767 s modern, really.

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A proper 8775 match 8776 is chosen because you have shared beliefs, life goals, mutual respect. Then, in order to make it work, both partners must make a concerted effort to give to one another, to play on the same team in the game called 8775 life. 8776 A partner who abuses their spouse, threatens them, or consistently makes self-centered choices is not working towards the kind of love that this post is talking about.


And of course there 8767 s no guarantee that it won 8767 t end in divorce. Divorced people don 8767 t plan or expect that when they say 8775 I do 8776 , or maybe they do and go along with it anyways for a selfish reason, money, family, security, whatever it is the typical Hollywood romance dilemma, fall in love with someone who isn 8767 t 8775 right 8776 for you on paper forced to break his or her heart in the process to find the person who is right for you, has money and security and while you may love him or her, you always know your heart belongs to the first love of your life, but you say 8775 yes 8776 to the proposal and will say 8775 I do 8776 at the wedding if you don 8767 t go back to your first love because you don 8767 t want to struggle

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This is why no one should get married without seriously considering the consequences, sacrifices, and pros and cons of marriage. My husband was in a marriage for 9 years to a wife with whom he knew he wasn 8767 t compatible. (They were pregnant and wanted to do the right thing by their daughter.) He did his very best to make the marriage work, but she decided she wanted out because she wasn 8767 t happy, and she left him. We met just over a year after she left him, and we have been married for 7 years now. We dated for about 6 months before we got engaged, and waiting another 9 months before we got married. We knew we were sure and we knew we were making a commitment that there was no backing out of.


You might not handle conflicts well all of the time even after infatuation is gone, but if you have the determination to get through anything with your partner, you and your partner can soar through, well, anything that comes your way. Happy couples are honest, giving, and often think in terms of 8766 we. 8767 They have a shared vision and a shared commitment to work as a team to get there. They are willing to work everything out.

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I also feel that when matches are chosen, one issue is that if the parents choose, they will choose based on *their* values, beliefs, life goals and idea of respect in a marriage. That 8767 s great if you and your parents agree and are in concord, but often that 8767 s not the case (I love my parents and they love me, but their wishes, goals and beliefs for me are not the ones I 8767 ve chosen for myself).

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But those anecdotes are not data: I can name just as many arranged marriages in which the love needed was not built, couldn 8767 t be built. Basically, knowing that some arranged marriages succeed doesn 8767 t mean they all do or even mostly do. Plenty fail, too. It is not guaranteed that you 8767 ll be able to build the love you want and need from the seed of an arranged match. You may but sometimes, it doesn 8767 t happen.

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But it 8767 s more than luck of the draw: when you marry for societal rather than personal reasons, you are just as likely to get trapped in a bad marriage as marrying for the wrong personal reasons, the difference being that in cultures with strong traditional roots, society won 8767 t let you get out of it. And if society still holds certain beliefs about men and women, or power in a marriage, or men being 8766 heads 8767 or 8766 masters 8767 of a household, or that it 8767 s a woman 8767 s job to make a man happy and not anger him ( 8775 and if you anger him, then you must have done something wrong and you can 8767 t leave 8776 ), then you will get more abusers: it may not be openly condoned by society but endorsing those 8775 men make the decisions, women keep them happy 8776 roles quietly condones abuse.

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It was love that made you propose to her on the second date it was love that got your married in less than three months since you met her first it was love that let your love mature in course of time. So saying that you did not love your wife when you got married is unagreeable.
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PS: My husband proposed to me on the very first date and we were married in less than 8 months. It 8767 s been almost 7 years and it seems the time passed by in the blink of an eye.

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I attribute the arranged marriage failures you describe in India and China to the low status of women in those countries. The men in my family respect their wives which seems to be missing from the Taiwan cases where the men find mistresses. The last anecdote isn 8767 t even related to an arranged marriage. Saying this in retrospect has no value, but the woman should have been careful in first dating that boyfriend, but more importantly her society failed in lacking a social structure to protect her from the consequences.

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You make sacrifices: I heard a story about this couple who met in high school but one of them had to move away but the boyfriend tried to come and visit the girl 7 hours every weekend. When the parents allowed him to go that is. 65 years later they are married with 7 children. They got married 5 years ago though. If you think about it he was a teenage boy. He did not have to do that. He could have dated another cute girl at his new school. I 8767 m pretty sure they were a lot of cute girls but he continued dating her through the rest of their senior/junior year and if he didn 8767 t do that they would not be together today, If she didn 8767 t stay committed to him they would not have been together.

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This is a great post and hits the nail right on the head. I have also noticed the importance of serving my wife, and how much of a difference that makes in our marriage when I focus on her rather than myself. One thing however, that I picked up from your post relates to the idea of love languages. Everyone likes to give and receive love in different ways. It seems to me like the way that you were trying to show love early on was through 8775 I love you 8776 s and words of affirmation. There is nothing wrong with this, and it shows that you were making an effort to show love. However, from your post it seems that your wife 8767 s love language (the way that she likes to receive it) is by you doing acts of service. Once you discovered what her love language is, you were able to focus on that and see the results (the look in her eyes).

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when you ask what comes first, you want to know 8775 how 8776 , but when you simply seek to understand the two sides of something, the two possible states of being and living, the two possible ends of any action or thought, you are asking 8775 why 8776 . 8775 why do I love this person 8776 , 8775 why do I do these things I do 8776 , 8775 why do I ask the questions I do 8776 , 8775 why does this make me happy and why does that not 8776 .

Abusive marriages suck ass. I was in one. But in the end I think it 8767 s just the luck of the draw. A woman is unlucky enough to get with an abusive or adulterous husband then what you describe is the result. At that point there is nothing left to do but trust in God 8767 s justice. In other words, they will HOPEFULLY get THEIRS. On the other hand, and I hate to admit it, just because one man abuses does not mean they all do. I don 8767 t know where the ones who DON 8767 T abuse are because I would probably be with one but they are out there. (Hell, they are probably with all the Elle McPhersons of the world. Nice guys like that have their pick.)

ex: When choosing a college (another important aspect of your life/future) you don 8767 t just pick one randomly out of a hat and after 5 minutes say OK, that 8767 s the one! and then commit to 9 years of your life at a place you don 8767 t know much about .You have to sort through a few options and figure out which one is right for you after careful consideration. Well, marriage isn 8767 t just a 9-yr school, it 8767 s The Rest Of Your Life! So the consideration put into who you should marry, should be a longggggggg time figuring out what is right for you

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My point is more that I 8767 ve seen just as many failed marriages in traditional cultures as in the West, and so I don 8767 t agree that those elements of our culture which not everyone puts stock in, I might add, I sure don 8767 t are what contributes to our failed marriages. The only real difference is that in traditional cultures it 8767 s not as acceptable to divorce. That doesn 8767 t mean the marriages all succeed.