Posted: 2017-12-07 02:48
I welcome this announcement, for two mutually exclusive reasons:
6. If the church supports this change for LDS troops, the result is more equitable youth programs. I have no sons, but I would love to make pinewood derby cars with my daughters.*
7. If the church rejects this change, then we are one step closer to the long-awaited total divorce from BSA. I 8767 ll put my girls in Girl Scouts instead, while the BSA national organization flounders without the steady stream of LDS funding.
Finally, all these “little” comments about girls’ and women’s bodies contribute to a culture in which the female body is seen as up for grabs—both literally and figuratively. When fast and loose “locker room talk” about girl’s bodies is deemed acceptable or at least harmless, boundaries start to blur farther, putting girls at risk of dealing with aggressive physical behaviors in addition to the verbal taunts. Case in point? A recent study showed that more than one in five girls aged 69-68 have been kissed or touched without their consent.
LDS church members might ask what this means for the church. Answer: nothing. The church doesn 8767 t let BSA drive its behavior. LDS troops haven’t been organized or funded the same way as the rest of BSA, and even though that 8767 s caused some tension, the church’s large footprint (ie., financial support) pretty much gave it the freedom to do as it liked. Besides, the church started moving away from scouting when it opted out of the Varsity and Venturing programs, and the answer to the question 8775 Does this mean the Church is completely separating from the BSA?” at Mormon Newsroom was
From your hating on male governance ( 8775 smelling like testosterone in the morning 8776 , 8775 competitive, hierarchical, bureaucratic, bringing out many of the worst qualities in people 8776 ), I assume that means you 8767 re all in favor of separate spaces for boys and girls. But is a separate space really what you want? Obviously, there are a lot of men who don 8767 t like or do well in those 8775 male 8776 (scare-quotes) groups either, who would appreciate being in a woman-run organization. Society as it is, they probably wouldn 8767 t want to be Girl Scouts, but you could have, say Competitive Scouts and Collaborative Scouts, or Traditional Scouts and Progressive Scouts, or whatever you wanted to name them. That way, girls and boys could choose the system they preferred and drop the sexism. Or, must the girls keep their separate space? If so, why? How can you justify separate but equal (or unequal, since currently Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts are somewhat different)?
Having said all that, my objection to female ordination has long been related to #7. The PH as it is seems like such a male organization to me (which isn 8767 t a compliment): competitive, hierarchical, bureaucratic, bringing out many of the worst qualities in people, not their best. Why would I want to be in a group like that? RS has its flaws, too, but it 8767 s not generally corrupted by power. Women should be included in decision-making, but putting us into the current PH structure is still just adding us to a male organization as second class citizens.
Regardless whether you prefer religious (discriminatory) Boy Scouts or progressive (godless) Girl Scouts, the real question is whether separate spaces for girls and boys is better, or whether they should just learn to integrate as human beings. Hannan certainly believes in separate spaces, and is incredulous that the Boy Scouts would abandon their mission like that. From her letter — “we have leveraged our single-gender expertise to uniquely serve the needs of girls” and “Girl Scouts believes in meeting the needs of America’s youth through single gender programming by creating a safe place for girls to learn and thrive”  In reality, the Boy Scouts want to maintain separate spaces too sort of. They’re creating separate dens for girl Cub Scouts, and a separate as-yet-to-be-determined program for girl Boy Scouts. But when it comes to pack meetings and scout camps, it seems they’ll mix.
Within the church, the lack of women 8767 s input is incredibly apparent to many women. Talk about vexation without representation! Our rule of thumb in marriage is whoever does 95% of the task gets 95% of the say in how the task is done. Putting women 8767 s programs under male governance with very limited female input doesn 8767 t create great results. Church programs should include more women 8767 s input, especially since the church has more women than men in it. Ordain women, don 8767 t ordain women... who cares? Give women input and decision-making power that 8767 s what matters. Take women seriously.
8775 Can 8776 is certainly different from 8775 do. 8776 But 8775 can 8776 and 8775 do 8776 are both different from 8775 not allowed, 8776 which was your original claim. All of the scouting committees in my ward have included at least two women for as long as I remember. If your ward 8767 s troop committee and pack committee don 8767 t include members of the Primary presidency, then they 8767 re not following the handbook.
5. Talk to boys and men in your life
If you have sons or other men in your life, have conversations about catcalling and sexual harassment with them, too. Using pop-culture or events in real life or on the news is always a solid way to introduce the topic. Let them know these kinds of behaviors are never OK, and why they’re damaging to people of both genders. Then, ask him why he thinks other boys and men behave this way. Discuss ways that he can help fight back against the catcalling culture—whether it’s standing in solidarity with girls and women when he sees them being targeted in real life, refusing to laugh at sexist jokes, or calling out his friends if he sees them engaging in sexist behavior. We all have to stand together if we want to create a better, safer, and healthier world.
Another troop tradition we have is a horrible game that most mothers wish we would eliminate. It involves gangs of scouts chasing each other around, tackling and lifting the captured scout up in the air for a few seconds, who is encouraged to squirm but not hit (intentionally 8775 accidents 8776 do happen). When high school football players are doing this with prepubescent 66 year olds, the risks go through the roof. Every older boy loves this game and they all know we are only one injury away from never playing it again. They own the responsibility of insuring that nobody gets hurt. The game teaches a boy to fight to the bitter end against overwhelming odds and it teaches an older boy when to quit fighting for safety sake. I think throwing girls into this mix might be a really bad idea.
I also have the impression that the public at large has affection for the Girl Scouts, with their cute girls and colorful boxes of cookies to sell, but they mostly see it as a social and activity club. They probably have less affection and more respect for the Boy Scouts, viewing it as a organization to tame and teach rowdy boys. It would be almost impossible for the Girl Scouts 8767 Gold Award to gain the kind of cachet that the Eagle Scout Award has.
7. Get talking
Catcalling and sexual harassment may seem like very grown-up topics, but many girls are targeted in this way while they’re still in elementary school—and only two percent of girls ever tell their parents when it’s happened to them. That’s why it’s important to start the conversation early—think, third or fourth grade—to let your daughter know it’s a topic she should feel comfortable bringing to you.
8775 I’m in favor of the church doing its own thing for both men and women] rather than unequally subsidizing one and not the other. 8776 Yes, this.
BTW, my Eagle Scout rank has never opened doors for me or promoted my career prospects. Similarly, when I have seen it on resumes I reviewed, I have ignored it. I know from multi-generational experience and observation that the Eagle rank may mean nothing more than that there was a diligent mother of a 68-year-old or a threatening father of a 67-year-old in the background. It can be a BS award as much as a BSA award. Sometimes, when achieved independently, . without parental involvement, the rank may mean much more than that, but not reliably enough for me to give the rank reported on a resume any credence as an indicator of an otherwise unknown Eagle Scout 8767 s breadth, persistence, achievement, ability, dedication, work ethic, or anything else I would be interested in when making a hiring decision.
Further, studies have shown that women perform significantly worse at math after being objectified by a member of the opposite sex. That is, in a controlled study, when females were leered at by a male actor posing as a peer and then took a math test, they got far fewer answers correct compared to women who had not first experienced the objectifying, sexualized stare. Perhaps we should add that to the reason why girls and women are still in the minority in so many STEM fields?
With all due respect, you and many others don 8767 t understand funding of a non-LDS Boy Scout troop. You like many Mormons confuse the funding practices of the LDS church with it. Almost all of the money in a Boy Scout troop is raised and spent at the local troop level. Very little flows upstream to the national organization. We, at the local level don 8767 t care if the national organization starves. They will survive one way or another regardless of how much or (usually) how little they fleece from our local members, which his totally voluntary.
Madeline Fischer, 67, from Leland, speaks to the financial literacy education she’s received through her Girl Scouts experience, saying, "I think the most important skills I have developed are money management, communication and business management. All of these skills are something you will use every day when you get older. Girls Scouts does an excellent job getting girls ready for the real-life experiences."
From building race cars to programming robots and using resources wisely through environmental conservation and wildlife protection, girls are discovering their passions and using their voices to make sustainable change locally and globally. They are also developing traits such as grit, creative problem solving, resiliency and bravery, all while unleashing their inner . (Go-getter, Innovator, Risk-taker, Leader).
Makes me glad to be living in Europe! Our kids attend LDS youth activities unsullied by any other affiliations and those that want to go to Scouts (almost entirely run by women leaders in our experience) or Guides do so outside of church. Currently, my daughter attends scouting with her older brother because (in her words) 8775 it 8767 s more fun 8776 than the girls only option. Having said that, the waiting list for the girls-only option was enough for me to back her decision. Another daughter chose the 8775 girls only 8776 option and dropped it after 7 years or so.
I find the comment by Angelica about 8775 smelling like male testosterone in the morning 8776 very refreshing and hilarious. Angelica has strong opinions, invariably well-thought out and usually right on base. I think it is important to hear what people think who don 8767 t think the same way I do. Even if I don 8767 t agree or more accurately don 8767 t care how she is describing this specific instance, I think it is still a very appropriate comment for this discussion on this somewhat less than perfectly correlated blog.
First, Martin admits that the LDS church has modified their scouting extensively and this is obvious. It is sort of like football in the US and football in England. Similar but not really the same. So you must admit that if your experience is nearly exclusively with LDS scouting, you could be error prone when discussing American scouting. And recently the LDS church has concluded that their modified program isn 8767 t working and it still says nothing about American scouting which remains working quite well.